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Old 07-12-2012, 10:40 PM
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Lybia "riven by torture, murder"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...vengeance.html
Back to bloody anarchy: Andrew Malone revisits Libya and finds a country riven by torture, mass murder and savage vengeance

Called Funduq Al-Jannah - Arabic for Heaven Hotel - it is an execution ground where up to 1,000 of Gaddafi’s fighters were taken by the victorious rebel army, then slaughtered in cold-blooded vengeance. For the truth is that, since Gaddafi fell, Libya has been run by a National Transitional Council which has overseen a descent into anarchy. A report from Amnesty International this week warns the country is in the ‘stranglehold’ of hundreds of militias acting above the law. The organisation says widespread human rights violations - arbitrary arrests, detention, torture (sometimes to death), unlawful killings and forcible displacement of families - are rife in the country.

Misrata’s rebel fighters reassured them they would not be harmed, that they were simply being taken for questioning at the ‘hotel’. It was a lie. As soon as the captives arrived, the killing started. ‘I’d told one of these dogs that we were taking them to Funduq Al-Jannah near the beach - he was really pleased and said that was good because his aunt lived in the area,’ a Misratan revolutionary told me. ‘We cut his throat first.’ The prisoners’ hands were bound with plastic ties. They were ordered to lie on their side, with their heads on piles of sand. All my guides were involved, saying they had held the legs of the prisoners while their throats were cut with bayonets. ‘We burned some of the bodies before burying them in the sand,’ I was told. ‘I don’t know how many were killed - as many as 1,000.’

Many of the victims were from Tawerga, a town 30 miles from here, where some 50,000 black Libyans once lived in happy co-existence with their neighbours in Misrata. But since Gaddafi fell, the rebels have been targeting its black population in indiscriminate revenge attacks for the despot’s deployment of thousands of African mercenaries recruited from outside the country against them. Some Tawergans undoubtedly took money to join Gaddafi’s forces. But vast numbers never joined in the fighting - and are being attacked simply because their skin colour is associated with Gaddafi’s mercenaries. Today, Tawerga has been ethnically cleansed of its black Libyans, and largely destroyed. Militia fighters regularly drive out there from Misrata to make sure none of the population have sneaked back in. Signs bearing the town’s name have been painted over. What remains of the shattered homes, shops and restaurants have been daubed with vile graffiti: ‘Black dogs! No blacks.’

Some 25,000 Tawergans have now been placed in ‘refugee camps’, which are, in effect, little more than prisons. The people in these camps do not dare leave: Misrata militias scour the country for anyone from Tawerga and regularly kidnap and torture black Libyans suspected of helping Gaddafi. So bad has the situation been that some want the Nato-backed rebels to be tried for war crimes. The tragic irony is that Britain, France and the U.S. imposed a no-fly zone and helped overthrow Gaddafi to stop him committing war crimes.

At the same time, fighting is raging in the south, where a brigade of Gaddafi loyalists, the Eagles of Muammar, has repeatedly tried to seize control of the airport in Sabha, a strategically vital city. With a huge arsenal of artillery, mortars and missiles, followers of the dead dictator aim to push north towards the coast - and vow to avenge their leader, who was captured by rebels last October before being tortured and killed. And in Sirte, where Gaddafi was found hiding in a sewage pipe, residents say they have had enough of the killing and kidnapping of suspected Gaddafi supporters - and are ready to fight back. ‘People still love Gaddafi, but they are scared,’ said one man. ‘Militias from other places come here every night and snatch men and boys from the streets. They say they come here to find guns, but they just want to kill people.’


But at least you gave them the right to be havin' deir freedumbs to elect a prezident, right, John? Too bad it doesn't work from a grave. "Freedom fighters" are now doing racial cleansing.

Rest in peace, General Gaddhafi. One day Lybia will rise up again, first it was the Western-enforced monarch, now against the West-enforced regime of the God-knows-who-representing-other-than-western-elites "Lybian council".

The regime was rotten when you rose up, and the regime is already rotten right now. It won't last long. Rest in peace, Martyr. Others will pick up, where you left off.
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Last edited by Theocide; 07-12-2012 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 07-13-2012, 02:25 PM
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Wait, did you expect a clean and antiseptic transition after a strong man dictator, who purposely kept his tribal country divided and weak for decades and tried to murderously crush the rebellion, fell?
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:09 PM
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Seems like democracy elected a whole slew of new problems!


They need the strenght of a new local strong man.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jschultz View Post
Wait, did you expect a clean and antiseptic transition after a strong man dictator, who purposely kept his tribal country divided and weak for decades and tried to murderously crush the rebellion, fell?
If that's what the people wanted.... that's what could have been done.

Show's these particular people lack guidance - take away the strong man and you take away their order.

Give them democracy and they vote in chaos!!
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:10 PM
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Good grief. Its like saying we shouldnt have fought the second world war because Germany and Japan recovered so well to dominate economically.

Anyway, this is all predicated on the idea that the West instigated the Arab spring. There is ZERO evidence to that effect nor is there any appreciable benefit to the West from it. More like further instability and a noticeable (and predictable) shift towards populist Islamist elements.

Once again, Theo's whining is predicated on the Arab spring being a WESTERN phenomenon. Not at all. It bears all the hallmarks of a populist revolt and such things are always unpredictable. If the West had been behind this for sure there would have been some "strong man" or plan for a replacement to fill the power vacuum. So you can either say the West is stupid (unlikely) or that they were as surprised as Gaddafi by what happened and winged it on the fly.
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:52 AM
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Soros blames Israel, encouraged by Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...ncouraged.html

Soros Frontman Pushing for Muslim Brotherhood
http://www.wnd.com/2011/06/311053/

Soros-funded “Expert” Defends Muslim Brotherhood on Matthews Show
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/soros-...matthews-show/


SOROS GROUP: 'NORMALIZE' MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD
http://www.wnd.com/2011/02/261337/
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:56 AM
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Good grief. Its like saying we shouldnt have fought the second world war because Germany and Japan recovered so well to dominate economically.
Yes, its exactly the same, objecting to a war because it lead a bunch of tribal muslim terrorists to power is the same as objecting to a recovered Germany, the parallel is very spot on thank you
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:58 AM
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Wait, did you expect a clean and antiseptic transition after a strong man dictator, who purposely kept his tribal country divided and weak for decades and tried to murderously crush the rebellion, fell?
Tribal countries are always divided. Because they are tribal.

And democracy is a perfect tool to keep them divided forever. Only a strong regime may forge a new nation out of some ragtag tribes with local identities and mutual hatred.

US politics in the region is essentially its archaization in alliance with the new Muslim Brotherhood and Taliban. Pretty much everything the US does there, from "enforcing democracy" to "food aid" leads to retardation of the region.

A good example being the case of "democratic Cote D'Ivoire" where the country had a colonial democracy, essentially remaining a resource colony for France, and when prices for tobacco and cacoa went down, it was engulfed into a civil war along the tribal lines (as usual). Right now the country has been in a constant civil war for almost 12 years already. Go, team democracy!
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:25 PM
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An exodus of Christians is taking place in Western Syria: the Christian population has fled the city of Qusayr, near Homs, following an ultimatum issued by the military chief of the armed opposition, Abdel Salam Harba.


This is what local sources told Vatican news agency Fides, pointing out that since the conflict broke out, only a thousand of the city’s ten thousand faithful, were left and they are now being forced to flee immediately. Some of the city’s mosques have issued the message again, announcing from the minarets: “Christians must leave Qusayr within six days, ending Friday.” The ultimatum therefore expired on 8 June and spread fear among the Christian population which had started to regain hope as a result of the presence of the Jesuit Fr. Paolo Dall’Oglio, who stopped off in Qusayr for a week to “pray and fast in the name of peace, right in the midst of conflict.”




The usual suspects doing the usual stuff with US blessing...
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:09 AM
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But at least you gave them the right to be havin' deir freedumbs to elect a prezident, right, John?
lol. My brother.... here in USA, das jeagers and the blacks are extremely buddy buddy. When it comes back "ignorant" Poles and Russians appear to be "racist", well, it doesn't do much to increase our "ignorant" stereotype, my friend! Individuals are individuals my friend, take one person at a time. Can you possible lump anything in life into one bucket? Trust me, I'm in the states, a little bit of tolerance shows a little bit of intelligence. Other than that, vive.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:23 PM
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The usual suspects doing the usual stuff with US blessing...
Yes ... our plan to rid the world of christians is going splendidly ..............
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:14 PM
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Yes ... our plan to rid the world of christians is going splendidly ..............
I don't think that's your plan.

I think they are just expendable to overall US strategy in the region, which is about allying with another wing of radical muslim movement as I've said before.

That this wing actually kills blacks and christians - "oh well, there's price for democracy"
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:01 PM
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Yes, I meant, our plan to ally with people who think we are Satan and conduct terror attacks on our own country is going splendidly ...
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:53 PM
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Amazing. Not a single shred of evidence to support such an outrageous speculation. No logical payback, no political capital to be made, massively self defeating and highly dubious to engineer. Yet still Theo clings to his thesis.

On the other hand, it just so happens to fit perfectly with a Russian pro Syrian view which is probably where Theo gets his facts from. I wonder what is more likely to be the reality? Hmmmm....
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:39 AM
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Yes, I meant, our plan to ally with people who think we are Satan and conduct terror attacks on our own country is going splendidly ...

Let's not play stupid and regurgitate cliches, which first of all had to do with the regime of Ayatollahs and have nothing to do with sunnis, shall we?

There are shades to every color.

And Muslim Brotherhood as well as other Saudi stooges seem to be doing quite well with regards to US.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:41 AM
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Amazing. Not a single shred of evidence to support such an outrageous speculation. No logical payback, no political capital to be made, massively self defeating and highly dubious to engineer. Yet still Theo clings to his thesis.
I've just posted some links above.

You still haven't commented on the retarded crap you've original posted comparing racial cleansing in Lybia and genocide of Christians in Syria to a "reviving Germany/Japan". One of the dumbest if not the dumbest utterance I've ever heard.

Quote:
On the other hand, it just so happens to fit perfectly with a Russian pro Syrian view which is probably where Theo gets his facts from. I wonder what is more likely to be the reality? Hmmmm....
Nice to see that you are actually saying it the way it is -"pro-Syrian", not pro-Assad as Western media would like it to be, inventing yet another pseudoconflict.

So yes, I'm pro-Syrian. I wish only the best for the Syrian nation.
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:35 AM
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US officials now provoking, encouraging terrorism in Syria. Small wonder, US is trying now to use this pretext for invasion after sponsoring the actual events.

Lavrov is correct, current US shameless position is not only an eyebrow-raiser, its virtually disgusting in its hypocrisy. Were such an attack to happen (as it already did) against US army, we'd hear global moan "about cowards who just want to take our freedumbs" - you are always a coward if you do a terrorist attack against US, and a hero, if you attack US' enemy.

Russia slams U.S. for "whitewashing" terrorism in Syria
English.news.cn 2012-07-25 23:53:59


• Lavrov said U.S. position over the Damascus bombing was "a direct whitewashing of terrorism."
• U.S. State Department spokeswoman said the attacks on Assad's top officials were "not surprising."
• Lavrov said he was surprised that the U.N. Security Council failed to condemn the attack.


MOSCOW, July 25 (Xinhua) -- Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that the U.S. position over the Damascus bombing that killed several top Syrian officials was "a direct whitewashing of terrorism."

The comment was made in response to U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland's remarks that the attacks on Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's top officials were "not surprising."

"This is a direct justification of terrorism. How should one understand that?" Lavrov told reporters.

In a July 18 suicide bombing attack, Syrian Defense Minister Dawood Rajha was killed along with three other senior officials, including Rajha's deputy, Assef Shawkat, who was also al-Assad's brother-in-law.

The Russian top diplomat said he was surprised that the U.N. Security Council failed to condemn the attack, which Moscow termed as an "act of terror" and demanded the arrest and punishment of those responsible.

He also criticized Susan Rice, the U.S. envoy to the UN, who said that the Damascus bombing called for enforcement of the UN Charter chapter that sanctions the use of force.

"This is a terrible position, all in all. I can't even find words to express our attitude to that," Lavrov said.

Last week, Russia and China vetoed another Western-proposed draft resolution that threatened non-military sanctions if Syria failed to withdraw troops and heavy weapons from populated areas.

Lavrov said that, according to information available, Syrian opposition groups linked to al-Qaeda have seized several checkpoints on the border with Turkey and looted Turkish property.

"We double-check it now. If the seizure of territories is being supported by our partners, we'd like to demand an answer: What is their position on Syria, and what they attain in that country, in the end of the day," Lavrov said.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:31 AM
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How is targeting the enemy military leadership in a civil war terrorism?

For example, I have no real problem with the likes of al-Qaeda targeting the Pentagon as they did on 9/11 in and of itself. Al-Qaeda had already openly declared themselves at war with the US -- we just hadn't taken them seriously up to that point.

On the other hand, I do find Al-Qaeda posing as civilians, using airliners full of civilians as missiles and targeting purely civilian targets such as the WTC as beyond the pale.

That being said, what exactly was so reprehensible about the Free Syrian Army blowing up the military leadership of Syria in the midst of a civil war?
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Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:38 AM
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How is targeting the enemy military leadership in a civil war terrorism?
I don't know... probably the fact, that men dressed as civilians commit the act in secret?

ps; what you personally don't mind is irrelevant, we are discussing official US position here. And US labeled all attacks be it on American military or civilian targets as terrorism.

In other words, Americans are on speed - their superaggressiveness has just turned into hyperagressiveness. Hope Syria bloodies their nose at some point.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:15 PM
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How is targeting the enemy military leadership in a civil war terrorism?

For example, I have no real problem with the likes of al-Qaeda targeting the Pentagon as they did on 9/11 in and of itself. Al-Qaeda had already openly declared themselves at war with the US -- we just hadn't taken them seriously up to that point.

On the other hand, I do find Al-Qaeda posing as civilians, using airliners full of civilians as missiles and targeting purely civilian targets such as the WTC as beyond the pale.

That being said, what exactly was so reprehensible about the Free Syrian Army blowing up the military leadership of Syria in the midst of a civil war?
Use of poisonous weapons does violate the Geneva Convention.

http://www.yalibnan.com/2012/05/22/a...onfirmed-dead/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...es-bomb-attack
"He is known to have survived an attempt to poison him in late May when a cook contaminated food that had been prepared for him and key members of the national security ministry."

That clearly is nothing but terrorism.
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